tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post5712973865313464114..comments2023-10-10T04:30:38.687-05:00Comments on Deo volente: Faculty Senate 2/14/12Dave Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09100006856645294730noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-62588917898991402792012-02-20T19:21:16.715-06:002012-02-20T19:21:16.715-06:00Agreed! Then let us have entrance exams before we ...Agreed! Then let us have entrance exams before we admit any students as in some European universities as well as papers being graded by outside examiners as in the UK.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-24158607798747669392012-02-20T18:26:08.332-06:002012-02-20T18:26:08.332-06:00The ACT like all other standardized measures is bi...The ACT like all other standardized measures is biased. Why only consider these?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-10526287246280316772012-02-17T12:31:29.588-06:002012-02-17T12:31:29.588-06:00I did not agree that you were correct. Please rea...I did not agree that you were correct. Please read my response again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-47539213414365944402012-02-17T09:13:34.436-06:002012-02-17T09:13:34.436-06:00Wow. Does Paranoid really think kids wanna watch T...Wow. Does Paranoid really think kids wanna watch TV instead of doing their homework. <br /><br />Too funny.<br /><br />Talk about out of touch.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-30406109475900946512012-02-17T09:12:52.216-06:002012-02-17T09:12:52.216-06:00Thank you for admitting I am correct. Some of you ...Thank you for admitting I am correct. Some of you (I don't how many of the anons are distinct) have just admitted that you are willing to admit students who are unlikely to graduate because you fear the loss of your jobs. This is what I am talking about. You might read Sinclair's "Babbitt" to see how people rationalize things. <br /><br />I have been at meetings with various Mike Sullivannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-6731710532815575282012-02-17T06:15:19.384-06:002012-02-17T06:15:19.384-06:00I concur 100% that there is a trade off between in...I concur 100% that there is a trade off between increasing (or enforcing) our admission standard and losing faculty lines. This is often overlooked.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-43643161469006345682012-02-17T06:09:12.239-06:002012-02-17T06:09:12.239-06:00Anonymous 8:01 PM:
You don't understand. You ...Anonymous 8:01 PM:<br /><br />You don't understand. You misinterpreted what was written above. <br /><br />The statements are not that the students are too weak to teach but that students with low ACT scores have a difficult to impossible time succeeding at SIU. <br /><br />The amount of work that these students have to do to catch up is huge, and there are limits on how much the university paranoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01305552154248972937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-12461475264357111722012-02-16T22:15:19.865-06:002012-02-16T22:15:19.865-06:00I note the reference to "customers" in A...I note the reference to "customers" in Anon. 8:01, a demeaning term used by Poshard. Students are not "customers." The ACT scores shpuld be higher and we should not admit bad students especially those who turn violent when they do not get their A value for money.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-77702364964320579012012-02-16T22:01:10.066-06:002012-02-16T22:01:10.066-06:00Some people only can teach students with great SAT...Some people only can teach students with great SAT or ACT scores. Everyone wants to have good customers. I understand.<br /><br />However, if you think the students you are teaching are your own kids, then you won't feel they are too weak to teach.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-89603037168437833172012-02-16T21:47:27.862-06:002012-02-16T21:47:27.862-06:00Let's say that we increase our standard of adm...Let's say that we increase our standard of admission. That certainly will bring the enrollment down. Are you willing to accept the situation that the faculty line is also going to shrink? (including term faculty positions). But it seems to me that most people would prefer to protect the faculty positions. I am not convinced that we can do both.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-42697985282304892212012-02-16T21:08:45.539-06:002012-02-16T21:08:45.539-06:00I fully agree that the admissions standard is far ...I fully agree that the admissions standard is far (far!) too low and that we are admitting students with little chance of success, but that is still not the same as a concerted effort to only keep students for 1-2 years. The administration is desperate to get students enrolled. If they could find a way to keep them longer, they would.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-57489206495639446872012-02-16T19:57:37.796-06:002012-02-16T19:57:37.796-06:00If we wanted students to stay for four years we wo...If we wanted students to stay for four years we would not admit students with ACT scores in the teens. We'd recruit and admit students who have a reasonable chance of doing college level work. But that is not the choice we are making.Mike Sullivannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-53995268257384819412012-02-16T17:04:40.634-06:002012-02-16T17:04:40.634-06:00I've been here as long as you have. Are you s...I've been here as long as you have. Are you seriously suggesting that if the administration had a choice of keeping students here 2 years or 4 years, they would opt for 2? That is nonsense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-19099948598467547592012-02-16T14:42:57.557-06:002012-02-16T14:42:57.557-06:00I agree--in the sense that I didn't mean to cl...I agree--in the sense that I didn't mean to claim that the Provost or Chancellor are using filibuster type tactics to grab all the time, but merely that most of the meetings I've been at consists of reports form them and some Q & A with them. That's not all the senate does, by any means, but it could do more, I think.Dave Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09100006856645294730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-40477795433425237062012-02-16T14:33:13.704-06:002012-02-16T14:33:13.704-06:00Dave: The performance based metrics are rather wea...Dave: The performance based metrics are rather weak. I think we will continue with the same scam. Real performance standards would force us to have real admission standards. <br /><br />Anonymous: I take it you haven't been here very long. We are admitting students whose ACT scores are in the mid teens. They are never going to graduate. We have lots of special programs so that they are Mike Sullivannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-58134354133782743912012-02-16T12:06:57.993-06:002012-02-16T12:06:57.993-06:00Why don't you just tell the chancellor and pro...Why don't you just tell the chancellor and provost that they can only have 2 minutes for their report?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-27814234326292122792012-02-16T10:28:08.591-06:002012-02-16T10:28:08.591-06:00Are the senators not in control of their own meeti...Are the senators not in control of their own meetings? Why can't senators mandate chancellor and provost reports be limited to a certain timeframe....maybe 2 minutes, or maybe 5? If senators allow lengthy reports, its their own doing. Talk about a circular firing squad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-32847786791545693302012-02-16T06:51:48.560-06:002012-02-16T06:51:48.560-06:00It is ridiculous to suggest that there is an effor...It is ridiculous to suggest that there is an effort to get rid of juniors and seniors. I don't think that our administration or faculty want any student to "go away".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-3653765715347940062012-02-16T00:04:23.676-06:002012-02-16T00:04:23.676-06:00But the performance based funding stuff will penal...But the performance based funding stuff will penalize us for retention problems, so this incentive may go away--to be replaced, perhaps, by equally detrimental ones to graduate anyone and everyone.Dave Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09100006856645294730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-15228998929804232012-02-16T00:03:14.274-06:002012-02-16T00:03:14.274-06:00Others on the FS UEPC (undergrad ed committee) obs...Others on the FS UEPC (undergrad ed committee) observed this problem--the complete lack of clarity regarding the process to be followed in the second half of the report--and it is in the committee's report. I think the FS committee did a decent job of getting out the basic message that we need a far clearer process to guide both the state-mandated program review process and the internally Dave Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09100006856645294730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-32864536642033587922012-02-15T23:00:21.496-06:002012-02-15T23:00:21.496-06:00When I was on the Faculty Senate years ago the Exe...When I was on the Faculty Senate years ago the Exec asked Wendler and Dunn to keep their comments brief. They should not be allowed to dominate the meetings. It is the FACULTY Senate. <br /><br />"The Chancellor & Provost stressed the bright side of enrollment numbers; for the fourth term running we have more new students entering campus." Universities make money on freshman and Mike Sullivannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-86138210020216837602012-02-15T22:14:13.965-06:002012-02-15T22:14:13.965-06:00Is that why Dave's previous two attempts to op...Is that why Dave's previous two attempts to open up a conversation about this topic have failed? Is everyone afraid to talk?<br /><br />Here, I'll try to break the ice. <br /><br />I am concerned about the "Complementary Practices and Academic Efficiencies" section of the document. That section applies to ALL departments, not just the ones with few students or high costs. Almostparanoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01305552154248972937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-77507377331959758352012-02-15T13:05:03.581-06:002012-02-15T13:05:03.581-06:00Ryan, you aren't suggesting that Alan Karnes i...Ryan, you aren't suggesting that Alan Karnes is misleading or not telling the truth, in order to stifle conversation, smash dissent, and scare everyone to keep our mouths shut? No, I guess that would be I who is suggesting that....Patrick Dilleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02907686980479319760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3492014659405332380.post-58398974276195680242012-02-15T12:32:59.634-06:002012-02-15T12:32:59.634-06:00Could someone please direct me to the place in the...Could someone please direct me to the place in the public act that requires direct reporting to the legislature? I read that in the report, but cannot find it in the act itself.<br /><br />Here's the passage from the Public Act available online, which indicates that the report is still to the IBHE:<br /><br />Each State university shall report<br />annually to the Board on programs of Ryan Netzleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12817668798838164403noreply@blogger.com